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Post by oskar2ndchev on Sept 26, 2008 20:44:01 GMT -8
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Radford
New Member
My Grandfather's Dog Tag.
Posts: 29
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Post by Radford on Sept 27, 2008 20:45:24 GMT -8
Hi Adam-
I am confused as to what distinguishes a Model 1912 Cavalry Bandoleer from a Model 1914. Page 48 of William. C. Machado's book on the Pancho Villa Campaign show what he calls a Model 1912 Cavalry bandoleer. It features a stitched and reinforced construction that is very different from the Model 1914 he shows on page 49. I have some period Mills webbing catalogs which show what they call a Model 1914 with Lift the Dot snaps. The WPG bandoleer looks more like a Model 1914 with Eagle snaps. As I understand it the Model 1914 served through WW1, but sometime around 1917 they switched from Eagle snaps to Lift the Dot snaps. Would it make more sense for Jerry to offer this as a Model 1914?
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Post by oskar2ndchev on Sept 29, 2008 7:53:01 GMT -8
I'll have to check when I get home. It's sometimes hard to make out details in the pictures in Machado's book and there may be some more details in Randy Steffen. From what I remember, one of them, either 1914 or 1912 made the transition from eagle snap to the lift-the-dots variety (the transition from eagle snaps to lift-the-dots began sometime in mid- 1917).
As for the reproduction, I'm going to hold off on getting one- it seems that the pouches were made a bit too small to fit a 5-round clip. Jerry Lee knows about it and he's going to resolve it. With Jerry's stuff, I've learned to wait a little before buying because the extended product de-bugging cycle. Still it's a good item to reproduce, especially since originals go for $500 and up (and that's for the ratty, thrashed ones). The lift-the-dots version is a bit more reasonable but it's too late for Punitive Expedition and I seriously doubt if they made it to France.
I'll see what I can find out.
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Radford
New Member
My Grandfather's Dog Tag.
Posts: 29
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Post by Radford on Oct 2, 2008 14:27:05 GMT -8
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Post by oskar2ndchev on Oct 2, 2008 15:11:55 GMT -8
From what I understand, the big difference in 1912/1914 is that the 1912 was built with more of a natural curve and it was woven as a one-piece unit on the Mills loom. Also, the 1914 versions form more a "V" than the 1912 which is curved. Basically this was due to the 1914 mostly being manufactured by companies other than Mills, which used a patented manufacturing method (the Mills loom) to fabricate an entire belt or bandoleer as a one-piece construction.
The Mills loom was able to construct an entire belt (bandoleer or conventional cartridge) as a single woven unit). The 1914 is supposed to be somewhat more "straight" and it wasn't a one-piece woven on a Mills loom. As the US came closer to entering the war and it became more clear that belts would have to be produced in quantities far greater than what Mills was capable of producing, production was was simplied so that other contractors could ramp up production. Basically, the various parts were stitched together.
From the various Ordinance Department Annual reports I've read, there were numerous complaints about the bullets poking wholes in the puckered webbing that is characteristic of the Mills-manufactured belts. I have examples of both types of cartridge belts and it's easy to see that the webbed pouches are a bit more weaker. But I digress a bit...
I think the nomenclature can be confusing- I'll dig some more and see what I can find.
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