British WW1 Monetary System

[rsm2ndbtnlf]

Before the United Kingdom adopted to a metric monitary system in 1971, we had a three tier Imperial sytem = Pounds - Shillings - Pence. This was quite a complicated system, with coins that could weigh quite heavy in the pocket.

The system had been in place for over a thousand years with various coins being renamed at various times as the centuries advanced. But the basic system remained unchanged.

The illustration below gives the full range of coins used at the time of The Great War, and I've arranged them in comparative size and denomination order, giving the reletive sizes of the largets and smallest of the coins in size comparison.



All of the coins from 'Crown' to 'Threepence' were silver, with the remaining being in copper.

The major denomination of the monitary system was as it is today = The Pound Sterling, but for general usage it is known by the simpler term of 'Pound'.
A Pound consisted of x240 Pennies, or, x20 Shillings, and believe me, if one had those actual x240 Pennies in one's pocket... that was quite a weight! The Pound is commonly refered to as a 'Quid.'

OK.. let me take each coin in tern and give you it's monitary exchange, and any nicknames it may have been known locally as...

Crown = x5 Shilling's.
Nickname: a 'Dollar'. {presumeably this is in reference to its comparative size to the US Silver Dollar]

Halfcrown = x2 Shilling's and Sixpence.
Nicknames: 'Half-a-Dollar', 'Two-an-a-tanner'. 'Two-n-Six'.

Florin = Two Shilling's = x24 Pennies. {This is known officially and stamped on examples as - Florin, or Two Shilling's]
Nickname: 'Two-Bob'.

Shilling = x12 Pennies.
Nickname: a 'Bob'.

Sixpence = x6 Pennies.
Nicknames: 'Half-a-Bob', a 'Tanner'.

Threepence = x3 Pennies.
Nicknames: 'Thruppence', 'Baby-Tanner', Half-a'Tanner'.

Penny = x1 Penny. {This is written as: 1d, as opposed to todays coinage reference of : 1p.]
Nickname: a 'Britania'.

Halfpenny = x1 half of a Penny.
Nicknames: 'Halfpence', 'Arfpence', Apence', 'Apenny'.

Farthing = x1 quarter of a Penny.
Nickname: 'Jimmy'.

So... there you have it Gentlemen. Confused? Well.... when refering to the acounting side, the heading was always written as L.S.D. = Pounds, Shilling's, Pence. Any reference to drug use is purely coincidental!!!

Seph

[Larry Dunn]

Seph,

Thanks for posting that--I was fairly familiar with the L-s-d system, except I could never quite figure how much a Crown was worth, which left me scratching my head, wondering how much Ebeneezer Scrooge paid for that Christmas Turkey One more question--James Bond's kit usually included "100 gold Sovereigns," how many quid to a Sovereign?

Thanks,

Larry

[oskar2ndchev]

And then there's Guineas- where do those fit in?

I remember watching an old movie where one of the actors pulls out a wad of pound notes- they were huge. It looked like a wad of paper napkins. I take it pound notes were a lot larger back in 1914-18?

[1886lebel]

If the RSM will forgive me for posting this here ...

The French WWI Monetary system used was the Franc ( ₣ ) which was first introduced by King John II in 1360.
The decimal "franc" was established as the national currency by the French Revolutionary Convention in 1795 as a decimal unit.
(1 franc = 10 decimes = 100 centimes)
Coins were issued in 5, 10, 20 centimes, ½₣, 1₣, 2₣, 5₣, 10₣, 20₣
Banknotes were issued in 20₣, 50₣, 100₣, 200₣, 500₣

For pay, a private in the French army made 1 sous (5 centimes) per day. A sou was equivalent to about 1 cent. For reference, 30 sous (one month's pay) was equal to 1.50 francs. Thus, the French soldier was paid literally in pennies. In August 1914, an additional allowance of 1.25 francs was given to soldier's who had to support a family, with another 50 centimes for each child under sixteen years of age for those families in need. Later, the government would supplement this daily pay with a trench allowance (i.e. combat pay) of 1 franc per day when at the front, although half of this was held back as a sort of post-service pension. This irked the soldiers to no end, since many knew they would not survive the war to spend it. Following the mutinies in the spring and summer of 1917, the trench allowance was raised to 2 Francs per day. Additionally, there was a welfare allowance of 10 sous for each child under the age of 16, for those soldiers who were in need of government assistance.

Patrick

[rsm2ndbtnlf]

Good one Larry!

The 'Sovereign' is one of Englands oldest coin types, and without going into too much detail, I think this link will fully answer your question.

www.australianstamp.com/Coin-web/history/sovhist.htm

Adam, the 'Guinea' is another very old English coinage, long since dropped from the currency system.. except in name and amount usage. The above link will also answer your question.

As to the paper currency of the period..... yes, they were rather large to-say-the-least, especially compared to todays examples. The illustration below gives a comparison of the WW1 'Pound note'!, and the last example used before dropping from the system in favour of the present 'Pound Coin'. The measurement I've used is from memory, so may not be quite exact, but it's as near as dammit. The last Pound-note was discontinued in the 1980's.



The Great War 'Five Pound Note' was approximatelly half as large again in length as the George-V Pound Note illustrated, so judging by your description, it's quite possible that you saw a roll of those being used.

Seph

[hocfutue]

Quick answer on a guinea--it's a pound plus a shilling.

When I went to school in England, I could tell how much cash was in my pocket by the weight of the pound coins. Felt like real money!

[rsm2ndbtnlf]

That's not bad Steve.... if that's from memory. We used to refer to a Guinea as x21-Shillings. The term is hardly used now.

For those of you who will be at Fort MacArthur, I'm working on setting up a 'Pay Parade'. However, this will all depend upon whether or not the old coinage arrives in time.

Seph ;D

[oskar2ndchev]

Interesting...

No more paper pound notes? Wow!

[rsm2ndbtnlf]

Adam, Scotland retained their Pound Note, so you'll see them there, but it's not legal tender outside Scotland. They also have a Pound Coin, as do Wales and Northern Ireland, and All four national Pound Coins are legal tender within the United Kingdom.

Seph

[cplcampisi]

Seph I have a question about terminology that I've been wondering about for some time.

Pennies vs. Pence:

I've formed the following impression (and I'm not terribly sure why) about how those terms are used:
Pennies would refer to a collection of penny coins, but pence refers to monetary value.

So I could say "There are five pennies on the table", or I could say "The value of the money on the table is five pence."

If it's 1, it's always penny (i.e. you wouldn't say "1 pence").

Is any of this correct? Or am I just confused?

[rsm2ndbtnlf]

Tony... the term 'Pence' when linked to British coinage referes to the decimal coinage from 1971 to date. This, when first appeared was called 'New Pence' to distingquish it from the Imperial system it was replacing = the Penny. So, when your refering by whatever means to the modern currencey, your correct in the use of pence. The full title of the modern British metric system was shortened after about ten years to simply 'Pence'.

Whenever refering to the WW1 Imperial system, it is mostly Penny or Pennies.

I know it's confusing, especially when looking at what some of the nicknames are, and it seems also to be a contradiction in terms. But the explanation above is the official version, and we today are dealing with two monitary systems for the same country. We all know that in real life nothing is as it is written.

I'll do my best to explain everything as best I can at the event.. but as hard as it seems to understand just now.... all of a sudden, the penny will drop [no pun intended] and all will come clear as day!.

Unfortunatelly, we in this modern age are thinking decimal.... not Imperial. We are putting up barriers where originally during WW1 there were none, as there was only one monitary system to think of.

Let me put it in a simpler way. Before decimalisation, it was quite correct to call a penny a penny, and a number of pennies : however many pence!


Seph

[cplcampisi]

Ok, I think I know what you are saying:

Today, it is appropriate to refer to the modern system as having pence, and the old system as having pennies.

Historically, the term pence was used.

If that's still not right you'll have to put me straight at the next reenactment. :-)

Thanks!
-Tony

[rsm2ndbtnlf]

You've got it Tony!

Seph

[qms]

There's not much I can add to that, except to point out that the symbol for the pound was (and still is) £ (a stylised 'L'), and the divider between shillings and pence, originally an elongated lower case 's' in copperplate (looking like a stretched 'f' and called a 'solidus' had mutated into what we now would call a 'forward slash' - no pence in these cases may be indicated by a hyphen
So, One Pound , ten Shillings could be £1 10s 0d or £1 10/- or may also rendered as 30s, 30/- spoken of as "Thirty bob" (NOTE, 'Bob' - for shilling - and 'Quid' for pound are ALWAYS singular.

The term 'Dollar' for 5/-, I believe comes from the exchange rate where (up until, I believe 1946/7) there were approximately $4 (US) to the pound sterling.

Any help?

Tom

[rsm2ndbtnlf]

Thank's Tom...... appreciated the gap fillers.