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Post by oskar2ndchev on Dec 20, 2011 13:25:43 GMT -8
OK, just to add some flavor and educational value, I'll be posting some pictures of various types of tanks. I start with the Renault FT tank. This was a light, two-man tank but still a nightmare to operate. Enjoy!  FT tanks in American service during the Muese-Argonne Offensive.  Another view...  Crew locations. |
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Post by Larry Dunn on Dec 20, 2011 14:06:13 GMT -8
This is the tank that started the French tradition of the one-man turret that proved so disastrous in WWII--one man as commander-loader-gunner is not optimal for combat efficiency.
-Larry
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1886lebel
GWHS 
151?me R?giment d'Infanterie de Ligne
Posts: 732
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Post by 1886lebel on Dec 20, 2011 20:07:34 GMT -8
Alot of confusion surrounds the name of this tank as it is sometimes stated that the letters FT stand for the French terms faible tonnage or faible taille (low tonnage) or franchisseur de tranchées (trench crosser) of which neither is correct, nor was it named the FT 17 or FT-17.
What we do know is that all new Renault projects were given a two-letter product code for internal use, and the next one available was 'FT.' and this tank was it.
The name FT 17 is a post war usage name as an original manual of 1918 just calls these tanks as Renault Char d'Assaut 18HP (Renault Cart or Wagon of Attack or Assault 18 HorsePower)
There were 4 versions of the used in WWI ...
1. Char Mitrailleuse ... It was equipped with the Mitrailleuse Hotchkiss Modèle 1914
2. Char Canon ... It was equipped with the Canon Court de 37 mm Puteaux SA-18
3. Char Canon 75BS ... It was equipped with the Blockhaus Schneider Petard 75 mm ( 75mm short-barreled howitzer)
4. Char Signal TSF (Télégraphie Sans Fil) ... This was a command tank with a wireless radio. it had no armament and crew of three.
There were three tank regiments formed during the war ... The 501, 502 and 503e Régiment d’Artillerie Spéciale (Regiment of Special Artillery) or sometimes called Régiment de Chars de Combat (Cart or Wagon of Combat) that operated these tanks.
Patrick
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Post by oskar2ndchev on Dec 21, 2011 8:58:06 GMT -8
Today's tank is the French-made Scheider CA1 (Later CA1). This was first developed in 1916 and was the first French tank built and used in combat. First operational use of the CA1 was during the Nivelle Offensive of 1917 and the outcome wasn't good for the tanks (or any of the French forces, for that matter).   The last remanining example is at the Musée des Blindés in Saumur and it's still fully functional and demonstrations are put on for the public:  |
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1886lebel
GWHS
151?me R?giment d'Infanterie de Ligne
Posts: 732
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Post by 1886lebel on Dec 21, 2011 17:25:52 GMT -8
I got to see this tank in action at Saumur ... it was impressive ;D
Patrick
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Post by joesweeney on Dec 21, 2011 18:59:43 GMT -8
Both the Schneider and St Chamond tanks that are now in Saumer were long time residents of the US Army Ordnance Museum in APG MD.
They were sent back to France in the mid 1980's. France unfortunately did save any after the War.
Although I hate things leaving US Museums in this case it was for the benefit of the tanks otherwise they probably would still be rotting outside.
Joe Sweeney
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Post by oskar2ndchev on Dec 21, 2011 20:47:31 GMT -8
Unfortunately, the museum at APG has let a lot of vehicles decay. The Patton Armor Museum is (or was) a little better.
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Post by oskar2ndchev on Dec 21, 2011 20:48:20 GMT -8
I got to see this tank in action at Saumur I'm surprised they didn't let you drive it... ;D  |
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Post by oskar2ndchev on Dec 22, 2011 8:44:05 GMT -8
And now for a completely different design, from the Russians was the Tsar tank:  This tank didn't even make it out of testing in 1915. Here's a model of the Tsar tank:  In contrast to Russian tank development during WWII, this was defnitely a "fail".  |
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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 22, 2011 11:11:41 GMT -8
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Post by oskar2ndchev on Dec 22, 2011 11:37:19 GMT -8
It's really sad that they can't seem to take better care of their collection.
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Post by cplcampisi on Dec 22, 2011 16:09:47 GMT -8
This is the tank that started the French tradition of the one-man turret that proved so disastrous in WWII--one man as commander-loader-gunner is not optimal for combat efficiency. -Larry French tanks of WW2 were highly respected at the time. The complaint about the one man turret, is not a complaint that existed when the tanks were in use. Most French tanks performed well in combat during WW2 (when they got into combat), but they had a lot of other things going for them which may have overshadowed problems with the turret. Instead, the main complaint was that it lacked a hatch on top of the turret (it was on the back, and it was awkward for the commander to get in out of the turret quickly) -- the Germans added top hatches to many of the French tanks that they used. However, the main thing to remember about the FT-17 was that it was really the first modern tank. Engine at the back, crew compartment to the front, and a turret on top! The Italians made minor modifications to the tank, and they probably had the best light tank of the early 1920s (the Fiat 3000). The Italians designed and produced two examples of their own tank, the Fiat 2000, during the war. A sound, and large, design, it's not clear if it was ever used during the war. The Italians formed a small tank force in September of 1918, consisting of two Fiat 2000s and six (or eight?) FT-17s. I suspect, that the nature of the Battle of Vittorio Veneto may have prevented the tanks from being employed then -- or they all broke down in short order. :-) mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Stories/emagazine-1/fiat2000/ www.landships.freeservers.com/fiatprojdata.htm |
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Post by Larry Dunn on Dec 23, 2011 8:05:35 GMT -8
Without drifting too much farther off topic, I agree that French WWII tanks were good machines, arguably better than the early Panzers they faced in 1940--the one-man turret was an inconvenience, but the major problem was their tactical doctrine (dispersal rather than concentration of tank formations) and their lack of two-way radios.
In 1911 (KuK) Oblt. Gunther Burstyn designed his Motorgeschütz, a tracked vehicle with a gun mounted in a rotating turret. The design was rejected because it was feared that it would infringe on Holt tractor patents. Burstyn had demonstrated an armored car at the Imperial Maneuvers, where he managed to frighten the emperor's horse, prompting Franz Joseph to remark that such a device "would never be of any military value."
-Larry
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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 23, 2011 12:01:19 GMT -8
The Renault FT was a major step forward in tank design. The fact that so many countries bought or copied it and that it remained in service for twenty years (finally rendered obsolete by the new designs of WW2) speaks of its excellence. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_FT |
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Post by cplcampisi on Dec 23, 2011 14:51:18 GMT -8
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