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Post by oskar2ndchev on Jul 24, 2011 6:19:40 GMT -8
What's even more sad (or discouraging), is that Hessen has always had the best prices (see below). They've always appeared to be very concerned about making things affordable for everyone. And therein lies the problem. Unfortunately, you get what you pay for. The reality is, given the size of the market and costs these days, a decent reproduction is going to cost and that's the plain truth. Sure, inexpensive would be nice but it just doesn't look like it's happening. |
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Post by hwolf on Jul 30, 2011 8:01:41 GMT -8
The thing we must remember here is no matter how cheap an item is or how tempting it is to buy it in order to save a nicer reproduction from the destruction of the trenches, if its wrong its, its wrong.
There is no cheap way out on this hobby, I've had to enforce this with more people lately than I care to mention. I'd love to buy a $150 tunic to trash instead of my New Columbia (a $400 tunic) but the $150 tunics are made by Chinese folks who make suits for Walmart. The pattern is just wrong. Now I'm not rich, I've just been doing this crap for 15 years. This is the key.....you have to buy your stuff over a good length of time so you don't break the bank or get the evil eye from your wife!
As historical reenactors we cannot allow ourselves to fall into the "its close" mentality otherwise we open the door for all sorts of BS: Brazialian mausers, East German Jackboots, Swedish Conversion tunics. etc etc. Back in the day (10-15 years ago) those things would of been acceptable because the repros were simply not out there for the most part (minus GWM), but as Great war Reenacting has reached the mainstream of reenactor land we now have no excuses. We can buy proper and accurate reproductions from approved vendors and reasonable prices.
Our standards must be enforced now more than ever especially as the centennial approaches. As Civil War reenacting has proven, all the nut jobs are going to be knocking on our door very soon. Civil War reenacting started out farb and has also lingered in this (not saying there aren't good units out there). Great War Reenacting started out with those reenactors who wanted to do it right and get away from the farb of Civil War. Thus IR23 has one of the highest authenticity standards in the country as do many GWHS units and it shows when we are in the field. Every unit has its own webpages or unit handbooks with the proper vendors listed to keep these high standards. "Close" does not cut it in this organization and we can pride ourselves on this.
The new Hessen M1915 bluse looks promising but I cannot make the call of whether it will be acceptable until I see it in person. I've learned the hard way over the years that what looks good on Hessen's website is not necessarily what you get. If the breast button fly is obviously too low then its a no go. I already took the plunge experiment ordering their 1907/10 pattern and ate $30 in shipping to get a refund. So I'm out on this one.
Best
Dan
IR23 Authenticity Officer
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1886lebel
GWHS 
151?me R?giment d'Infanterie de Ligne
Posts: 732
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Post by 1886lebel on Jul 30, 2011 8:53:46 GMT -8
Very well stated Dan ... always buy proper and accurate reproductions from approved vendors.
Before you buy anything get with your unit to see if that APPROVED or NOT, you could get the wrong thing and not be allowed to use it at all, this is why I did the one French Uniform Regulation post on here, to let members know where to get the proper stuff to do this impression.
Patrick
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Post by kingkaiser on Jul 30, 2011 15:19:27 GMT -8
Ditto that!
The old saying, “you get what you paid for”, is true. That’s not only true for uniforms, but also gear. Some of the “less costly” items that look good in the online catalogs (or on e-bay) end up looking bad in person, or are flimsily constructed and likely won’t hold up to tough use. Some items, once viewed in person, won’t even do to fill holes in a collection or display, having obvious design flaws or just looking “cheap”.
Like everyone else, I’ve been “burned” a few times (more often than I’d like to admit). Almost all of the items I’ve purchased have been for various displays and collections I’ve put together. I’ve purchased from just about every vendor, and I’ve handled just about every reproduction German item available. About four years ago, I donated a large collection to a museum near my hometown (some the items were used for displays, and some of them were sold to raise money for the museum). Originals of a lot of items just aren’t available, or if they are available, they are in pretty “rough” shape. That’s particularly true for cloth and leather items (uniforms, belts, ammo pouches, tornisters, zeltbahns, gas masks, etc.). For those items, reproductions are the only real option. However, for original “durable” items, such as helmets, sporks, mess kits, canteens, entrenching tools, belt buckles, gas mask cans, etc. (i.e., metal items), I’ve come to the conclusion that restoring them, or leaving them as is, probably is the best way to go. Many times, the cost of a refurbished original ends up not being much more than the cost of a reproduction, especially if the reproduction has to be “fixed” in order to bring it up to standards.
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Post by oskar2ndchev on Jul 30, 2011 18:44:10 GMT -8
Our standards must be enforced now more than ever especially as the centennial approaches. As Civil War reenacting has proven, all the nut jobs are going to be knocking on our door very soon. Civil War reenacting started out farb and has also lingered in this (not saying there aren't good units out there). Great War Reenacting started out with those reenactors who wanted to do it right and get away from the farb of Civil War. Thus IR23 has one of the highest authenticity standards in the country as do many GWHS units and it shows when we are in the field. Every unit has its own webpages or unit handbooks with the proper vendors listed to keep these high standards. "Close" does not cut it in this organization and we can pride ourselves on this. Like Dan, I've been dealing with this issue on a variety of fronts and while I dislike appearing like a jerk, the bottom line is that either it's done right or we might as well stay home. And unfortunately, I find myself witness to the sort of BS that I used to encounter when I did Civil War. I don't want a repeat here and I'll do everything I can to keep things right. And like Dan, I get a lot of that over-used excuse "but it's so expensive". Doesn't work. You want expensive? Try doing cavalry some time and maintaining two horses.  |
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Post by muddhen on Jul 31, 2011 4:10:07 GMT -8
You want expensive? Try doing cavalry some time and maintaining two horses. great war-$2000 cavalry-$25,000 with a used ton truck and a gooseneck trailer(i kept three horses) |
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Post by sapper44 on Sept 17, 2011 19:13:19 GMT -8
Here is a photo of the uniform being worn at the Fort Worth Militaria show today:  |
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Post by soldataltengarde on Feb 21, 2012 10:52:33 GMT -8
Dan wrote: "It is a terrible issue on the 1907/10 tunics (see my other post on that in the Vendor review section) - it looks like crap when you have 2 buttons below your belt buckle. Try finding an original pic of that! " Dan, you asked to see a photo of a tunic with the buttons below the belt. here it is www.flickr.com/photos/paranoid_womb/6483490333/in/photostreamSorry, I don't know how to post fotos directly Now I am not trying to "stir the pot" but you mention that Hessen tunics are too short. At the above website/fotos are numerous images with coats going to just above mid-thigh and others at mid-thigh. NONE with the tunic buttons in line with the pocket flaps. The 1914 coat I bought from Hessen goes to just above mid-thigh, same as in original fotos, buttons not in line with the tunic flaps (maybe I got one that they cut too long?), it not nearly as short as a WWII tunic! Don't worry, I have a Schipper 1915 Bluse to wear in the field (although their customer service & wait time is -  . WALT |
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Post by oskar2ndchev on Feb 21, 2012 18:31:42 GMT -8
This should do it:  |
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Post by hwolf on Feb 21, 2012 18:47:34 GMT -8
Walt, You are confused here. This discussion was about the M1915 and you are bringin up the earlier model tunics. On top of that there are two separate discussions here. The older model tunics from Hessen and the newer version. Older versions: correct button distancing, WAY too short on all model tunics (like a WW2 tunic) Newer versions: Correct length, but the button distance was likewise increased so that the last button is lined up with the pocket flaps. Not that big of a deal on a M1915 since you don't see them but a huge problem on earlier pattern tunics. This means the torso itself was enlongated and the pattern is all wrong. (see my pics under vendor reviews for a comparison of the early pattern tunics) Their newer M1915 are the only ones we allow. In IR23 we strive to do the norm and not the random exception to the rule which is why we enforce this and do not allow the earlier pattern tunics from Hessen Dan Ps: nice hunting on finding that pic, now find one with 2 buttons below the belt buckle which was my original complaint and one where the last button lines up with the pocket flaps  |
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Post by soldataltengarde on Feb 22, 2012 8:43:12 GMT -8
Understood!
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Post by oskar2ndchev on Feb 22, 2012 9:26:24 GMT -8
All aside, the above picture is pretty interesting, especially the Alpine insignia on the Mutzes.
Trivia- for a few months, an Abteilung (detachment) of the 2nd Chevauleger served with the Alpenkorps. :-)
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. WALT